23:02:06 <Lurimax> #startmeeting
23:02:06 <Beaker_> Meeting started Mon Jun 25 23:02:06 2012 Europe/Oslo.  The chair is Lurimax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:02:06 <Beaker_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
23:02:31 <Lurimax> #topic Recap from previous meeting
23:02:53 <Lurimax> one sec, just let me find the minutes
23:03:03 <crantila> what about attendance?
23:03:18 <Lurimax> the bot takes care of that
23:03:29 <Lurimax> but for a laugh:
23:03:32 <crantila> even without a rollcall? Wow this is 21st century IRC
23:03:42 <Lurimax> all present say AYE!
23:03:46 <ParadoxGuitarist> AYE
23:03:48 <crantila> AYE
23:03:55 <ParadoxGuitarist> ...
23:04:08 <ParadoxGuitarist> >.<
23:04:26 <crantila> "open" is all about appearance
23:04:40 <Lurimax> ok, not much to say here.
23:05:05 <Lurimax> i have run threadirqs for a week and it works flawlessly (for me at least)
23:05:28 <Lurimax> The spins team know we have a spin on the way, we have a spin wiki page
23:06:07 <Lurimax> has ayone heard from bsjones about  jack-audio-connection-kit-dbus?
23:06:48 <crantila> guess not
23:07:16 <Lurimax> there is a bug that he was working on, and it could be hard to include it until he knew more about it
23:07:38 <Lurimax> i have no clue what the status is now.
23:07:40 * crantila looking up the bug
23:10:00 <Lurimax> I'm having no luck finding it on bugzilla, but i believe it was an upstream bug
23:10:09 <crantila> it's no the 'verbose mode' thing is it? I don't see anything
23:10:18 <crantila> oh
23:11:32 <Lurimax> i'm looking through the loigs to see what exactly he said
23:12:09 <Lurimax> "Its in my repo, but is broken due to an unresolved bug in jack atm"
23:12:46 <Lurimax> turns out it is the verbose thing
23:12:47 <Lurimax> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=827748
23:13:01 <crantila> and that bug is waiting on a GCC fix
23:13:19 <Lurimax> any news on the gcc fix :p?
23:13:34 <crantila> it's not out yet
23:13:56 <crantila> I'm sure it'll be fixed in time for the spin compose, but maybe not in time for testing the spin compose....
23:14:37 <Lurimax> maybe put it on the primarylist with warning signs saying it's dependant on a bug 827748?
23:15:31 <crantila> sure
23:16:52 <Lurimax> #agreed jacl-audio-connection-kit-dbus will go on the primary list with a link to bug827748
23:17:07 <Lurimax> any questions about the last meeting before we move on?
23:17:29 <ParadoxGuitarist> I have one:
23:17:40 <ParadoxGuitarist> What was the other name that was tied with Jam?
23:17:48 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm just curious.
23:17:55 <ParadoxGuitarist> =)
23:18:07 <Lurimax> soundwave
23:18:36 <crantila> darn... almost won
23:18:49 <Lurimax> yeah, i was concidering pretending it won :p
23:19:06 <Lurimax> but i thought a coin toss would be the most fair
23:20:06 <Lurimax> at least now we can codename it Fedora Jam 18 Rhubarb
23:20:15 <Lurimax> #topic Spin submission status
23:20:54 <crantila> +1 for spin code names
23:21:33 <Lurimax> I have started the kickstart file, but i think i might aswell start on a fresh one, as it's not based on one of the live cds
23:21:52 <Lurimax> is it possible to use the kickstart file that was started on ages ago?
23:22:39 <crantila> probably, but I don't know if I'd bother. Depends if it's easy to get a template for a Spins SIG-approved kickstart
23:23:02 <Lurimax> i believe it's in the repos
23:23:36 <crantila> probably doesn't matter, but bsjones would know better
23:23:53 <Lurimax> yeah, i think he has one hosted somewhere
23:24:18 <Lurimax> the one on the wiki pages was last edited in 2010, so i think it might be a bit too old
23:24:46 <ParadoxGuitarist> I think bj was just working on the kickstart file recently
23:24:54 <Lurimax> http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=spin-kickstarts.git
23:25:04 <ParadoxGuitarist> I don't think he would have been working on it if we couldn't use it.
23:25:38 <Lurimax> I'll get a hold of him this week then and get into some heavy coding on it
23:26:05 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will put his head down and get the kickstart ready
23:26:52 <Lurimax> we need to create a lits of what needs explicit configuration for a user
23:27:46 <Lurimax> everything i have been using has worked out of the box (apart from jack + a usb headset)
23:28:39 <crantila> how many audio interfaces do you have?
23:29:03 <Lurimax> just motherboard audio out + ati graphocs hdmi
23:29:08 <Lurimax> *graphics
23:29:21 <Lurimax> I'm taking out my midi keyboard tomorrow to play around with it
23:30:04 <crantila> okay. I have three, and one thing that *always* needs special configuration is telling JACK which one to use
23:30:32 <Lurimax> it just picks the first one and runs with it?
23:30:57 <crantila> depends what "first one" means
23:31:07 <Lurimax> f.eks hw:0
23:31:23 <crantila> part of the problem is I can only specify device, but not "sub-device" or output or something
23:31:36 <crantila> I can't set hw:0,1 to default because next time that card might be hw:1,1 ...
23:32:04 <Lurimax> ahh yeah, that whole  debacle
23:32:05 <crantila> but if I do hw:ATI or whatever, I can't specify hw:ATI,1
23:32:19 <Lurimax> i fought with that quite a bit on my media center
23:32:56 <Lurimax> so we need to come up with a solution to this
23:32:59 <crantila> it's particularly notorious because I unplug the "good" interface when I'm not using it
23:33:15 <crantila> is that in the settings program bsjones was looking at?
23:33:57 <Lurimax> I think that is something he has been talking about
23:34:28 <Lurimax> 'I think he was going to task me with creating a program to let the user choose
23:34:46 <crantila> time for an # action ?
23:34:54 <Lurimax> meby
23:35:13 <crantila> and you can use the jack-dbus interface!
23:35:48 <Lurimax> just to confirm my thought, if we create a program to let the user choose, that problem will not require any additional configurations in the kickstart file?
23:36:36 <crantila> think so. Also, setting sound card preferences even before installation is not so good
23:36:59 <Lurimax> true, was thinking of a %post script of somekind
23:37:31 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will ask bsjones about jack configuration app and start koding on it
23:37:41 <crantila> I submit that anything other than run time is not so good
23:37:54 * Lurimax seems to be mixing his languages
23:38:47 <Lurimax> last issue for this topic, do we think we will be ready for submission by Sunday?
23:39:10 <Lurimax> I guess i'm the best person to answer that.....
23:39:15 <crantila> what's required? final choices of all apps?
23:39:31 <Lurimax> It's a little unclear
23:41:55 <Lurimax> what i do know is that the submission deadline is 17th of July
23:42:29 <Lurimax> "The kickstart may not have any missing dependencies"
23:42:51 <crantila> so GCC must be fixed by the 17th, and any JACK-selector too
23:43:29 <Lurimax> but from what i understood from the sigs team, it can be changed after the deadline, but it may have to go through another review
23:44:12 <Lurimax> I'll confirm that with them again. I dont' think i was totaly clear when i asked them
23:44:37 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will ask more directly what can be changed after the submission deadline
23:44:46 <crantila> that's a troublesome situation
23:45:10 <crantila> I wonder if they'll be more forgiving because it's GCC that's broken?
23:45:11 <Lurimax> but i think it would be good to push back the submission a week to the 7th of July
23:45:18 <Lurimax> I'll ask them
23:45:41 <crantila> it's not like nobody maintains it
23:45:44 <Lurimax> I'll try to get a hold of them on IRC, it's easier to ask stuff like that there than to send 20 emails
23:46:09 <Lurimax> what, people are actully maintaining gcc? i though it was dead :p
23:46:30 * Lurimax is not being serious
23:47:03 <crantila> some people seem to think it's unmaintained...
23:47:21 <Lurimax> really.....?
23:47:39 <crantila> well, they whine about it and say they prefer clang-llvm
23:48:00 * Lurimax shudders
23:48:03 <crantila> but that's another matter; let's get on with the meeting
23:48:07 <Lurimax> yeah
23:49:00 <Lurimax> #action push submission deadline to the 5th of July, unless additional information from SIGs team says otherwise
23:49:42 <Lurimax> #topic Primary software
23:50:09 <Lurimax> as posted on the mailing list, i have changed the format of the wiki page
23:51:04 <Lurimax> My first question jack2
23:51:13 <Lurimax> has it been discussed at all on the mailing list?
23:51:21 <crantila> doesn't look like it
23:52:01 <Lurimax> I don't know enough about it to make any calls on it. What are the general thoughts on it?
23:52:26 <crantila> thought we already had it; checking up
23:53:04 <Lurimax> It's on the primary list, but it's not in the repos (or i haven't found it)
23:53:17 <crantila> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=2148
23:53:22 <crantila> since F14
23:53:28 <crantila> the 1.9.x series are jack2
23:53:55 <Lurimax> *facepalm*
23:54:13 <Lurimax> so it's "jack1" that's not in the repos?
23:54:57 <crantila> yes, we don't have jack1 any more
23:55:29 <Lurimax> #info the wiki has been updated with the new info
23:55:51 <crantila> note about the GCC bug: it's fixed in 4.7.1, which has not yet made it to rawhide, so we're only waiting on Fedora
23:56:33 <Lurimax> #info note about the GCC bug: it's fixed in 4.7.1, which has not yet made it to rawhide, so we're only waiting on Fedora
23:57:09 <Lurimax> my next question is traverso
23:57:32 <crantila> as for the rest of the default software, I suggest you make up your mind, send it to the list for comments, and if nobody complains then use it
23:57:43 <Lurimax> fair enough
23:57:58 <Lurimax> I just don't like being a dictator
23:58:01 <crantila> or else we will sit here all day and still not be sure
23:58:09 <ParadoxGuitarist> Yeah
23:58:22 <crantila> you're not dictating if you request, wait for, and consider comments
23:58:30 <crantila> esp. if you explain your choices
23:59:00 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will compete the primary software list and submitt it to the mailing list
23:59:36 <Lurimax> #topic Desktop Enviroment
23:59:58 <Lurimax> We discussed this last week, and we dicided wither KDE of Gnome3
00:00:14 <Lurimax> just a quick roundup of what everyone present thinks
00:00:31 <ParadoxGuitarist> I just saw in #fedora that they disabled two finger scrolling ?!?!
00:00:43 <ParadoxGuitarist> in Gnome
00:00:54 <Lurimax> #info Fedora has disbaled two finger scrolling
00:01:10 <crantila> same as previous. I'd go with KDE because I'm a KDE user, and many audio packages use Qt
00:01:11 <ParadoxGuitarist> Not Fedora, just Gnome
00:01:30 <crantila> #info Fedora has disabled two-finger scrolling in GNOME because GNOME users had too many features to worry about
00:01:33 <ParadoxGuitarist> Two finger scrolling works fine in KDE.
00:01:35 <ParadoxGuitarist> lol
00:02:02 <Lurimax> i guess this is actually relevent to the discussion
00:02:09 <Lurimax> but i want Gnome :(
00:02:43 <Lurimax> but i guess KDE makes the most sense out of the two
00:02:43 <ParadoxGuitarist> I use both, but it seems like KDE is a little more friendly to new users
00:02:55 <ParadoxGuitarist> Gnome just looks pretty.
00:03:10 <Lurimax> i just changed from gnome to KDE on my laptop and i hate it
00:03:11 <crantila> so does KDE
00:03:24 <crantila> that's why there are two
00:03:41 <crantila> or, that's why there were two, until GNOME 3, and now there are fifty
00:03:49 <Lurimax> lol
00:04:02 <ParadoxGuitarist> No joke.
00:04:34 <crantila> no joke, yes funny
00:04:54 <ParadoxGuitarist> ^_^
00:05:03 <Lurimax> sound like all present want lcde?
00:05:11 <Lurimax> *lxde
00:05:39 <ParadoxGuitarist> I actually have lxde on my other laptop and it works well with my audio stuff so far.
00:06:03 <ParadoxGuitarist> I did all that kernel testing in lxde.
00:06:33 <Lurimax> i just don't think it's mature enough for a spin that wants to attract new users
00:07:36 <crantila> then we should be making a CentOS spin
00:08:08 * Lurimax shudders
00:08:12 <ParadoxGuitarist> No, I get that Lurimax... it lacks... polish.
00:08:42 <ParadoxGuitarist> but it's fast and lightweight.
00:08:45 <Lurimax> I think this is a discussion that can go on for quite some time
00:09:08 <crantila> right, so again probably just pick what you think is best
00:09:12 <ParadoxGuitarist> We're just choosing one right?
00:09:16 <Lurimax> unless someone has a compelling argument for something else, it will be KDE
00:09:24 <ParadoxGuitarist> not I.
00:10:10 <Lurimax> #action The DE will be KDE unless someone has a complling argument for something else
00:10:15 <imalone> I guess users will still be able to install their own DE anyway?
00:10:27 <Lurimax> #topic Wiki pages
00:10:30 <crantila> of course
00:10:49 <Lurimax> this is more of an info point than discussion
00:11:21 <Lurimax> As you probably have notices, the wiki pages have changed quite a bit
00:12:20 <Lurimax> anything that goes on the primary list end being checked by a python script that writes a report on it here
00:12:23 <Lurimax> http://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/crawler/crawler.txt
00:12:51 <crantila> cool
00:12:55 <Lurimax> the point of the script is to make it easy for anyone to see software that need to be packaed first
00:13:19 <Lurimax> *packaged
00:13:31 <imalone> Cunning.
00:13:45 <Lurimax> #info http://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/crawler/crawler.txthttp://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/crawler/crawler.txt will have a list of software that need priority in packaging
00:14:26 <Lurimax> if anything is added, make it the yum searchable name (I.e not jack2, but jack)
00:14:50 <Lurimax> I should probably write a little note about that and how to add comments to the names on the list :)
00:15:12 <Lurimax> any questions or comments on the wiki pages?
00:20:17 <Lurimax> I guess not
00:20:29 <Lurimax> #topic Design and Artwork
00:20:54 <crantila> what's the status here?
00:21:02 <Lurimax> so far we one contribution https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Spins-banner_jam.png
00:21:32 <Lurimax> I'm hanging around #fedora-design and talking to people
00:21:49 <Lurimax> But any help i can get is much appreciated
00:22:03 <Lurimax> #info we need more artwork
00:22:04 <crantila> I like the banner design, except the English words are untranslateable
00:22:36 <Lurimax> works fine in scandiwegian
00:23:13 <crantila> #info crantila complains too much about minor details
00:23:32 <crantila> maybe that would have been better off as a /me
00:24:01 <Lurimax> nah, last time it had the football scores in, it will be fine :)
00:24:47 <Lurimax> any ideas for taglines or designs?
00:25:19 <crantila> if I were a visual designer, I wouldn't be at this meeting
00:25:56 <Lurimax> yeah, that's kind of the problem. I'm fresh into the fedora comunity and i don't know that many people yet
00:26:09 <Lurimax> if anyone has anyone they can ask for help, please do
00:27:01 <crantila> we'll be fine
00:27:32 <Lurimax> we have a monkey locked in a closet we take out to make designs?
00:28:03 <crantila> or somebody can make something in ten minutes if it comes to it
00:28:06 <ParadoxGuitarist> I've done some graphic work before.
00:28:12 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'll take a crack at it.
00:28:37 <ParadoxGuitarist> When do you need artwork by?
00:28:50 <Lurimax> pictures of music gear is also welcome. I might see if i can get some good snaps of some of mine
00:28:59 <Lurimax> end of july-ish
00:29:35 <ParadoxGuitarist> Ok,
00:29:42 <Lurimax> do i sende an action point not directed at mr :p?
00:29:44 <Lurimax> *me
00:30:22 <crantila> go ahead
00:30:27 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'll get a first round done by July 6th, so if we need more or to alter some of it, there will be plenty of time.
00:30:45 <Lurimax> #action ParadoxGuitarist will help create some art
00:30:51 <Lurimax> last topic
00:30:56 <Lurimax> #Test days
00:31:03 <Lurimax> #topic Test day(s)
00:31:07 <crantila> 2nd last
00:31:25 <Lurimax> aaahh yes
00:32:02 <Lurimax> This is just to give a heads up that there will be at least 1 test day sometime in late july/early august
00:32:19 <ParadoxGuitarist> yay!
00:32:40 <Lurimax> if there is a prticular week you are going on holiday/vacation please let me knoe
00:32:43 <Lurimax> *know
00:33:11 <Lurimax> also, if there is anyone you know that you think really should be there, let me know about that too
00:33:23 <crantila> I'm not going on vacation, but will not likely be available for the last week of July or first of August...
00:33:37 <Lurimax> and finally spread the word
00:33:39 <crantila> the formal test days usually bring out lots of people from Bugs SIG though
00:34:21 <Lurimax> i'll look into last week of july and 2nd/3rd week of august
00:34:59 <Lurimax> I'll be trying to work some PR for them, and here any help i can get is also welcome
00:35:24 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm going on vacation on the 15th. of July for the week.
00:35:33 <ParadoxGuitarist> but that's not the last week of July.
00:35:48 <Lurimax> nope, so that sounds good :)
00:35:53 <ParadoxGuitarist> =)
00:35:57 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm excited!
00:36:30 <Lurimax> good, that is something the spins needs :D
00:36:43 <Lurimax> ok crantila: last topic is yours
00:36:55 <crantila> #topic Using Google for Fedora Business
00:37:01 <crantila> won't listen, oh well
00:37:17 <Lurimax> #Topic Using google for Fedora Buisness
00:37:29 <crantila> we should use Fedora infrastructure for everything, if at all possible. Reasons...
00:38:09 <crantila> 1.) Fedora shouldn't rely on another organization, because then we rely on it. Minor point
00:38:29 <crantila> 2.) Fedora has no control over Google or any other organization. Minor point in this case
00:39:00 <crantila> 3.) All Fedora users should be welcomed to contribute to everything in Fedora, which they are not if they require a Google account to contribute
00:39:33 <crantila> so that's the reasons I would recommend against posting schedules and agendas on Google
00:39:55 <Lurimax> there is one simple reason i do it. Fedora doesn't work on windows :(
00:39:58 <crantila> all things considered, I've made a bigger deal than it's worth, but it's about symbolism
00:40:11 <Lurimax> but i do see your points
00:40:27 <ParadoxGuitarist> I didn't think Google required an account for public google docs.
00:40:34 <Lurimax> me neither
00:40:42 <crantila> certainly the Fedora wiki can host agendas/minutes, that's easy
00:41:05 <Lurimax> tru dat, i'll post them there from now on
00:41:31 <crantila> ParadoxGuitarist: if that's true, I wasn't able to find how to save changes to the agenda for this meeting
00:41:58 <crantila> so that's the end of my spiel, and maybe somebody else has something to say?
00:42:52 <Lurimax> not really, but i can add that the first thing i revived from fedora when joining GSoC was a google form, and i still recieve them weekly :)
00:43:31 <ParadoxGuitarist> Hehehe
00:43:40 <Lurimax> i will cut down on the google, but the calendar stays :P
00:43:45 <crantila> that's because you're participating in GSoC... which is definitely a good gig
00:44:04 <Lurimax> yeah, but i recieved the from Fedora
00:45:12 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will cut down on freedom hating google apps, and try using more GNU/Linux applications
00:45:53 <Lurimax> #topic Etc.
00:46:02 <Lurimax> anything else we need to discuss?
00:46:44 <crantila> everything looks good to me... ParadoxGuitarist ? imalone ?
00:47:01 <imalone> No, all good.
00:47:36 <Lurimax> then the meeting as ajourned
00:47:47 * Lurimax bangs cup on his desk
00:47:53 <Lurimax> #endmeting
00:48:06 <Lurimax> #endmeeting