23:24:55 <Lurimax> #startmeeting
23:24:55 <Beaker> Meeting started Mon Jul  9 23:24:55 2012 Europe/Oslo.  The chair is Lurimax. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:24:55 <Beaker> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
23:25:06 <Lurimax> All present say Aye
23:25:12 <crantila> Aye
23:25:13 <bsjones> Aye
23:25:17 <Lurimax> Aye
23:25:40 <ParadoxGuitarist> aye
23:25:43 <Lurimax> #topic Recap from previous meeting
23:25:59 <Lurimax> any questions about the minutes from the previous meeting?
23:26:14 <bsjones> can you give us a quick link?
23:26:23 <Lurimax> http://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/fedora-audio/2012/fedora-audio.2012-06-25-23.02.html
23:26:38 <crantila> #link http://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/fedora-audio/2012/fedora-audio.2012-06-25-23.02.html
23:26:50 <Lurimax> good thinking
23:27:13 <bsjones> I'm good (sorry I missed the meeting guys)
23:27:26 <Lurimax> ParadoxGuitaris: how is the art going?
23:27:45 <Lurimax> The kickstart is started and commited to git
23:27:56 <Lurimax> #link http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=music-creation.git;a=summary
23:28:19 <bsjones> the jack issue is not resolved - an update is pushed turning off optimisation
23:28:33 <crantila> that's thumbs-down
23:28:36 <bsjones> the GCC team have neither confirmed nor denied wether it will be fixed in the next point release
23:28:51 <Lurimax> so no jack-dbus for us?
23:28:57 <bsjones> i've pinged them but no one has got back to me
23:29:18 <bsjones> #link http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53663 if anyone is interested
23:29:51 <bsjones> no, just with a sub-optimal jack at this stage
23:30:00 <ParadoxGuitarist> The artwork is moving, I had a friend take some pictures that we can use as source/background material that will be licensed correctly for use.
23:30:15 <bsjones> gcc 4.7.1 should hit rawhide if it hasn't already
23:30:16 <Lurimax> sweet
23:31:01 <Lurimax> ParadoxGuitarist: just ping me when you have something, and we can start getting it into the spin :)
23:31:03 <bsjones> put me down to follow up on the latest gcc build in rawhide and if it has bumped I'll test jack with normal optimisation
23:31:27 <Lurimax> #action bsjones follow up on the latest gcc build in rawhide
23:32:32 <ParadoxGuitarist> Will do Lurimax.
23:32:34 <Lurimax> I have tried to get a hold of the spins team to ask more about *exactly* what can and can not be cahnged after the 17th of nuly
23:33:03 <Lurimax> #action ParadoxGuitarist will keep working on artwork and keep lurimax updated
23:33:56 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will comunicate more with the spins team
23:34:09 <Lurimax> any other questions or comments about the last meeting?
23:34:34 <Lurimax> btw, the agenda is @ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_creation_spin_development#Meetings if anyone missed it
23:34:37 <Lurimax> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_creation_spin_development#Meetings
23:34:48 <bsjones> I'm good
23:35:12 <crantila> cool wiki page
23:35:39 <Lurimax> #topic State of the (kickst)art and primary software
23:36:26 <Lurimax> pretty much everything on the primary list is packaged now
23:36:36 <Lurimax> #link http://jvlomax.fedorapeople.org/crawler/crawler.txt
23:36:45 <Lurimax> that says what is packaged and what is not
23:37:18 <Lurimax> there are a couple of false positives(jack-dbus comes to mind)
23:37:26 <crantila> so we're not trying to get supercollider in there?
23:37:34 <bsjones> cool - can we add comments for stuff that is still pending packagin, just so its on the radar when the review gets done?
23:38:00 <bsjones> ie. CCRMA stuff (rtirg, supercollider?, ams etc)
23:38:10 <Lurimax> you can add comments on the wiki. "|" is the comment delimiter atm
23:38:17 <bsjones> I'd like SC in there
23:38:17 <Lurimax> do we need rtirq?
23:38:20 <bsjones> yes
23:38:37 <bsjones> I'll be packaging both of those with Fernando, but I'm just not there yet
23:39:10 <crantila> bsjones: so you have SC under control? I could help with some of the subpackages if you wish
23:39:15 <Lurimax> just add them to the primary list and they will end up in the kickstart(i'll comment it saying it's on it's way)
23:39:20 <crantila> or even co-maintain (have to learn eventually)
23:39:52 <Lurimax> any software you really want, just add to the wiki. It will be cought by a script somewhere ;)
23:39:53 <bsjones> crantilla: mostly everything core has been moved into version control now so packaging has become infinitely simpler with the new release
23:40:07 <bsjones> crantilla: nando is doing a great job, hopefully mostly copy and paste
23:41:00 <crantila> bsjones: that's good, guess it'll mostly be a question of whether the SPEC meets Fedora regulations
23:41:06 <bsjones> crantilla: but will let you know - if there's anything SC not in ccrma it would be great to package it
23:41:21 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'm glad we're getting rtirq.
23:41:22 <bsjones> yup
23:41:28 <Lurimax> #info the kickstart will go up for wrangler on wednesday/thursday
23:42:02 <bsjones> can we start talking about what else we are going to put in the kickstart - at the moment its just a list of packages
23:42:12 <Lurimax> sure, go ahead
23:42:32 <Lurimax> but spesific configuration stuff is the next topix
23:42:37 <Lurimax> *topic
23:43:07 <bsjones> ok - i'll wait ;)
23:43:48 <Lurimax> #info any primary packages not on the wiki now, should be in on wednesday
23:44:08 <Lurimax> just so that everyone is aware (i'll post it on the mailing list too)
23:45:13 <Lurimax> any other packages we are missing, or something that makes you wonder "what the...."
23:45:14 <bsjones> qtractor should be sorted by the end of the week, but has to go through a cursory rpmfusion approval - oget has modularized mp3 support which is great
23:45:31 <Lurimax> sweet
23:45:35 <crantila> what up wit' qtractor?
23:45:50 <bsjones> it is approved but rpmfusion complained and I had to pull my update as a courteousy
23:45:58 <Lurimax> things that are on the list put not packaged will be commented on in the kickstart
23:46:28 <bsjones> rmfusion complained that our qtractor package (same name) would clobber theirs
23:46:40 <crantila> as it should...
23:46:47 <bsjones> the idea was that we'd rename qtractor in rpmfusion qtractor-freeqorld
23:46:54 <crantila> as it should be...
23:46:59 <bsjones> s/q/w/
23:47:10 <crantila> okay, thanks
23:47:26 <bsjones> so now rpmfusion-freeworld will just be an .so
23:47:43 <crantila> good solution
23:47:48 <bsjones> you know what i mean
23:48:29 <Lurimax> next topic?
23:48:48 <bsjones> I think the list is good - I'm sure the spins team will be pretty lenient to package inclusions etc after review
23:48:54 <bsjones> yep
23:49:12 <Lurimax> #topic Configurations
23:49:37 <crantila> idea!
23:49:40 <Lurimax> My first question (since i'm new to fedora), is there any reason not to add the default user to the audio group
23:49:47 <Lurimax> go ahead
23:49:58 <crantila> no, I'll yield, just wanted to say I have one
23:50:11 <crantila> what are the possible security risks of being in the audio group?
23:50:39 <Lurimax> I would not know. They could make audio come out of the speakers?
23:50:40 <crantila> correction: what are possible sec...
23:51:13 <Lurimax> I'm very lenient on security, so i don't see any danger
23:51:15 <crantila> is there some sort of realtime permission given? Because I think there is, in which case...
23:51:55 <bsjones> well, their process priority is escalated in jack (/etc/limits.d/95-..) , but this is an audio spin
23:52:16 <Lurimax> i think it would be counterintuative not to do it
23:52:35 <crantila> right, but could we limit the amount of memory available to JACK?
23:52:49 <crantila> I think the default limit is something like 1612897091789243 GB
23:53:01 <Lurimax> have a splash screen that say "please enter "<command to add to audio group>" to be able to use this spin"?
23:53:31 <bsjones> and jackuser group
23:53:57 <bsjones> I'm pretty sure this can be configured as part of the kickstart
23:54:12 <bsjones> for liveuser anyway, I just don't know how
23:54:23 <Lurimax> worst case, what can go wrong if we add the default user to audio and jackuser?
23:54:41 <Lurimax> i pretty sure you can set default groups for new users
23:54:56 <crantila> any particular process run by the user is allowed to reserve any amount of memory for fun?
23:55:07 <crantila> and set itself to higher priority?
23:55:15 <bsjones> #linkhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#group kickstart groups
23:55:20 <bsjones> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#group kickstart groups
23:55:29 <bsjones> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Kickstart#users kickstart users
23:55:37 <crantila> that seems like a significant issue; I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but that we should see if there are easy enough ways to limit potential damage
23:56:01 <bsjones> there was som discussion regarding this with the PAM maintainers
23:56:10 <crantila> like change JACK's maximum memory to be automatically 50% the total system memory?
23:56:34 <Lurimax> anyone have any pre-existing knowladge on how to do that?
23:56:40 <bsjones> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=795094 jack default priority
23:57:21 <bsjones> nando orcan and I have worked to modify jacks priority settings for the user group for optimal latency (assuming rtirq is present)
23:57:48 <bsjones> we just need to add the user to jackuser and/or audio
23:58:22 <Lurimax> so if we limit the amount of memory jack can use, we *should* be safe to add the user to those groups?
23:58:44 <bsjones> I don't think we need to change mem settings at all
23:58:56 <bsjones> jack defaults should be ok
23:59:15 <Lurimax> any other apps that might hog memory? ardour?
23:59:27 <bsjones> I think that's out of scope for the spin, morte of a jack issue
23:59:33 <Lurimax> any other apps that might hog memory? ardour? does that even use the audio group?
23:59:53 <bsjones> all jack clients should use the jackuser group
00:00:02 <crantila> JACK doesn't use much memory for me, no matter which machine I'm on...
00:00:23 <crantila> it's not JACK that I'm worried about, but a malicious program and an unwary user
00:01:01 <crantila> some non-specialist comes along, see the Audio Spin, thinks it's cool, installs it--this is perfect for us, except all the non-existent Linux malware that I'm worried about
00:01:25 * crantila folds for now, admitting security is a bigger concern for him than most others
00:02:35 <Lurimax> #agreed the default users will belong to the audio and jackuser groups
00:02:50 <Lurimax> crantila: you had an idea?
00:03:14 <bsjones> crantilla: perhaps this will come up in the spins review?
00:03:27 <crantila> we could add an awesome, on-spin default homepage for all browsers?
00:03:56 <crantila> we could collect links to documentation, discussion, audio our community produces, and so on
00:04:14 <crantila> get some flashy graphics to make us look good
00:04:44 <bsjones> I think that's done within packaging the browsers themselves, no?
00:04:51 <Lurimax> i think so
00:05:06 <Lurimax> fedora-firefox set's it by default
00:05:17 * Lurimax has started inventing packages
00:05:35 <crantila> oh... so we'd have to re-package the browsers?
00:05:51 <Lurimax> but where is the home page stored?
00:07:00 <Lurimax> would it be possible to change the skeleton folders so that it set's a new default homepage?
00:07:04 <bsjones> i'm looking at midori spec for example - one moment
00:09:37 <bsjones> Lurimax: I'd be hesitant to start playing with default config files. We could create an autostart .desktop file instead which points the default browser to whatever page
00:10:20 <Lurimax> that would work. Sort of like a splash screen?
00:10:33 <bsjones> This could work really well for the Live session, yeah
00:10:58 <Lurimax> sounds like we have an idea
00:11:13 <crantila> another place for our visual art
00:11:23 <Lurimax> #idea create an autostart .desktop file that points to a spin spesific page
00:11:36 <Lurimax> any takers for craeting said website?
00:11:51 <crantila> I can give it a go
00:11:51 <Lurimax> i haven't asked around yet, so there is still time to find somone
00:12:13 <Lurimax> #action crantila will look into creating webpage for spin
00:12:14 <crantila> I'm not a graphic designer nor a web developer, but I can certainly put in some content
00:12:34 <Lurimax> i only do drupal
00:12:48 <crantila> so maybe if you want to coordinate with somebody from some other SIG, and I'll post the content on teh webz, and they can make it nicer
00:13:13 <bsjones> +1 for splash/homepage
00:13:26 <Lurimax> do you want to ask around, or should i just add it to my regular mailing list spamming?
00:14:02 <crantila> and we'll also need KDE splash screen, default wallpapers, maybe a plymouth theme (Fedora could really use a nice plymouth theme), and even the GRUB2 background
00:14:22 <Lurimax> the grub2 background shoule be fixed for fedora 18
00:14:26 <crantila> I feel like I'm at IKEA and just realized I need to buy the whole house
00:14:31 <Lurimax> they just ran out of time for fedora 17
00:14:47 <crantila> Lurimax: exactly, so we can provide a music-theme one
00:15:13 <Lurimax> good idea, but i'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole
00:15:21 <crantila> :P
00:15:33 <crantila> #info we need longer poles
00:15:44 <Lurimax> lol
00:15:55 <bsjones> midori package patches the homepage FYI
00:16:22 <Lurimax> yeah, i think we diced on autostart .desktop anyways
00:16:26 <Lurimax> *decided
00:16:38 <bsjones> what other autostarts?
00:16:43 <bsjones> qjackctl?
00:17:07 <crantila> qjackctl panel app!!!! (IKEA moment again)
00:17:22 <bsjones> it is already, just not turned on by default
00:17:26 <Lurimax> #agreed create a .desktop autostart file that links to a spin web page
00:17:43 <Lurimax> easy to fix?
00:18:12 <bsjones> this is where it gets kind of complicated, the config file won't exist until qjactctl is run the first time
00:18:45 <Lurimax> sounds like it might be a problem
00:18:50 <bsjones> however, we may be able to supply a commandline option to another autostart desktop - let me see
00:19:33 <bsjones> doesn't look like it
00:19:49 <Lurimax> sounds like we have a problem then
00:20:00 <bsjones> I could maybe patch it but that's not gonna happen soon, would need to talk with rui
00:20:05 <Lurimax> but do we need to autostart it?
00:20:25 <Lurimax> i can go an entire day doing stuff without jack
00:20:26 <bsjones> that was a question
00:21:05 <bsjones> I autostart it on logon and with pulse the pulseaudio sinks/sources are automagically created
00:21:06 <crantila> then no? Could get annoying, too
00:21:21 <bsjones> but for a spin, we can't guarantee hw is configured
00:21:46 <crantila> bsjones: that sounds good, but if it causes problems, we could always make an icon for it somewhere prominent
00:22:33 <Lurimax> we do have a desktop in kde
00:22:36 <bsjones> we are creeping into a fedora-audio-config application territory here methinks
00:22:57 <Lurimax> yeah, i was going to mention that
00:23:15 <Lurimax> while we are at it. That app to turn on/off jack/pulse:
00:23:28 <bsjones> I'm no KDE guru by any means, but do we want to try adding launchers to the default panel etc?
00:23:44 <Lurimax> I can look into it
00:24:06 <bsjones> perhaps qjackctl would be better suited there, pavucontrol as well
00:24:37 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will look into createing launchers for much used apps (qjackctl,pavucontrol etc.)
00:24:53 <bsjones> how did you go with the cadence stuff?
00:25:06 <Lurimax> i have had a lok at it, but not done much
00:25:37 <Lurimax> wasn't quite sure what we wanted. Am i right in thinking we just want the right half of the cadence main window?
00:25:41 <bsjones> its really quite a clever app, upstream is not updating the py2 version at all from now. that's confirmed
00:25:51 <bsjones> so we can't really package it
00:26:03 <crantila> link?
00:26:34 <bsjones> #link http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications:Cadence
00:26:44 <bsjones> its very nice
00:26:50 <Lurimax> i reallu liked the look of it. It was very usefull
00:26:54 <bsjones> like the one you saw in ikea
00:27:08 <Lurimax> although it's currently bugging my pulseaudio setup
00:27:39 <crantila> if not Python 2, then what is being updated?
00:27:54 <bsjones> rewite in py3 - I don't know why
00:28:16 <bsjones> Lurimax: how so
00:28:18 <bsjones> ?
00:28:19 <Lurimax> because py3 is better
00:28:33 <crantila> because Python 3 is newer/better, so why not use that? Because it's not ready yet. Oh.
00:28:35 <Lurimax> it thinks jack is running from boot(it's not)
00:28:50 <crantila> can't we package it anyway?
00:28:52 <Lurimax> when i try doing anything, it kills pulse and say couldn't stop jack
00:29:31 <bsjones> hmmm. I've stopped using it in favour of my setup mentioned above
00:29:45 <Lurimax> I only noticed what was happening today
00:30:01 <Lurimax> I'm looking into it tomorrow and see if i can file a bug for it
00:30:42 <bsjones> the maintainer said it was still a bit buggy, but if you rpm -ql the binary package, you can see how he is calling all the components, mainly os calls
00:31:01 <bsjones> not terribly sophisticated but its a step in the right direction
00:31:13 <Lurimax> #info rpm -ql on a binary package will show how compnents are called
00:31:56 <bsjones> he drops a file in xsession starrtup which reads his config and uses things like pacmd to start pulse, a2j start etc
00:32:02 <Lurimax> but how realistic that we will have an app ready to configure jack/pulse for release?
00:32:17 <crantila> depends how much time you have
00:32:42 <Lurimax> 5-6 hours a day
00:33:11 <Lurimax> but i'm not the greatest programmer. I'm an ok programmer
00:33:22 <crantila> well join the party there...
00:33:26 <bsjones> someone said to me - it would be really nice to have an easy way to turn pulse off
00:33:38 <bsjones> how about we head in that direction ans see how we go
00:33:48 <Lurimax> i know! run cadence. works perfectly for me :p
00:34:15 <Lurimax> yeah. I can see that i won't be abandoning the project after GSoC
00:34:32 <Lurimax> so even if we don't have it ready for this release, it will make the next
00:34:32 <crantila> we could even fork cadence to fedorahosted, remove what we don't want, and maintain it ourselves
00:34:42 <bsjones> e.g. an app which sets autospawn to false in .pulse/client.cfg and calls pacmd to kill the server
00:34:42 * crantila is glad to hear that
00:34:51 <bsjones> to start does the reverse
00:35:20 <Lurimax> #info an app which sets autospawn to false in .pulse/client.cfg and calls pacmd to kill the server (and vice versa)
00:35:47 <bsjones> pacmd is very powerful, the default sceen could just list all the sinks sources etc
00:36:02 <Lurimax> I'll look more into it tomorrow. I was planning on working on it tomorrow whhen i had some more info (which i  now have)
00:36:39 <crantila> well, if you want to fork or start from scratch, and you want to use Python, I'll help out a bit if I can
00:37:21 <Lurimax> I would prefer C, but i have never done gui programming in it
00:38:00 <bsjones> #link http://bsjones.fedorapeople.org/cadence-0.0.1-0.1.alpha2.fc16.src.rpm for ideas
00:38:08 <bsjones> crantila: that's for you
00:38:43 <crantila> I haven't used C since... years ago
00:38:56 <crantila> thanks, bsjones
00:39:17 <Lurimax> i have used Qt with python before, so i guess that would be the easiest way to go
00:40:11 <bsjones> happy to chip in where i can
00:40:21 <Lurimax> but if someone could just write spesificly what we need the app to do, it wouldn't be a problem to write it from scratch
00:40:24 <crantila> only reason I'm pro-Python in this case is I'm trying to learn quickly for another project that my career may depend on
00:41:00 <Lurimax> what is the project called?
00:42:07 <crantila> ELVIS (groan... I didn't name it)... upcoming link
00:42:23 <Lurimax> did you try "import ELVIS"?
00:43:31 <crantila> no, it's "from music21 import *"
00:43:44 <Lurimax> hehe
00:44:01 <crantila> there's actually not a good link for that project in particular... we're using http://mit.edu/music21/
00:44:42 <Lurimax> oh, wow. That looks amazing
00:44:56 <crantila> it's truly overwhelming for me
00:45:17 <bsjones> cool stuff
00:45:21 <crantila> but a lot of fun, and thoroughly off-topic
00:45:24 <bsjones> did you want to package music21?
00:45:25 <Lurimax> no previous python experience, or?
00:46:03 <crantila> bsjones: yes, I'll eventually get there
00:46:21 <crantila> Lurimax: no, none, just "you can learn Python right? They said it's easy"
00:46:44 <crantila> and it is easy, but The Pythonic Way(TM) is not always easy to guess
00:46:58 <Lurimax> do you know any other object oriented languages from before?
00:47:01 <bsjones> crantila: if you have experience with sc and music21 you'll have no problems
00:47:50 <crantila> no, I previously used scheme, C, and a bit of supercollider
00:48:13 <crantila> it's already turning out well enough... the professors seem pleased with my progress, so now I just have to keep going
00:48:49 <Lurimax> yeah, don't worry python is an amazing language, just don't ask it for "random" numbers :p
00:49:03 <Lurimax> i think i need to reel the meeting in a bit
00:49:05 <ParadoxGuitarist> hehe
00:49:20 <Lurimax> the audio configuration app
00:49:53 <Lurimax> bsjones: would it be possible for you to just write a few lines about what it *spesificly* needs to do?
00:50:38 <crantila> (and how we're being graded?)
00:51:25 <bsjones> Lurimax: sure
00:51:49 <Lurimax> #action bsjones wil make a spesification for the audio-configuration app
00:51:59 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will start writing said program
00:52:37 <crantila> finally got fedorapeople to work... http://crantila.fedorapeople.org/possible%20graphics%20for%20Fedora%20Jam.tar.xz
00:52:41 <bsjones> so we are happy to shoot for a simple app (perhaps system tray) in Qt which allows the user to start and stop pulse audio?
00:53:08 <Lurimax> yes, but -1 to systray
00:53:21 <bsjones> and display the current state, sinks/source?
00:53:25 <bsjones> why?
00:53:26 <crantila> bsjones: I'll take a look at cadence, and see whether it's easy to eliminate enough features to make it easily maintainable
00:53:45 <ParadoxGuitarist> crantila: these are all NC free right?
00:54:00 <bsjones> its really very simple, aprt from the fact that it starts/stosp jack in differnt ways depending on wether jackdbus is present
00:54:03 <Lurimax> because systray + gnome3 = :'(
00:54:27 <crantila> CC-BY-SA, as per "COPYING"
00:54:38 <bsjones> Lurimax: you can determine that at runtime
00:54:55 <Lurimax> fair enough
00:55:39 <crantila> ParadoxGuitarist: CC-BY-SA, as per "COPYING" ... sorry if you read that already
00:56:14 <Lurimax> anything else we need to configure? i noticed the old kickstart file disabled the login sound
00:56:41 <bsjones> I'm not sure why, might want to ask dtimms about that
00:57:10 <Lurimax> i was wondering if it would be possible to create our own
00:57:40 <crantila> Lurimax: there's an SIG for event sounds... I'll find their page & we can partner with them
00:58:07 <crantila> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Sound
00:58:12 <crantila> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Sound
00:58:25 <crantila> also #link http://crantila.fedorapeople.org/possible%20graphics%20for%20Fedora%20Jam.tar.xz
00:59:32 <Lurimax> I'm going to play around with my guitar and see if a can find a login jingle
01:00:02 <crantila> almost anything is better than the default KDE login sound
01:00:24 <Lurimax> yeah, something that will make us different :)
01:01:13 <bsjones> did the fedora-sound-themes guys come up with anything worth including? I must admit I haven't tried any of them
01:02:34 <crantila> looks like sound-theme-beethoven-fifth was pushed to F14 and F15...
01:03:34 <Lurimax> that's something we could potentialy use i guess
01:03:41 <crantila> #link http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=11955
01:03:52 <crantila> as Bugzilla shows, I'm not a fan of that idea
01:05:29 <bsjones> I'm not fussed with the changing default sounds, but the correct way to do it is to package them
01:05:38 <Lurimax> agreed
01:06:14 <bsjones> its one of the first things i turn off funnily enough
01:06:27 <crantila> bsjones: me too
01:06:31 <ParadoxGuitarist> hahahaha
01:06:43 <Lurimax> i think it's something that should perhaps be in fedora Jam 18, Banana (second release)
01:06:47 <ParadoxGuitarist> I saw a website we can use for inspiration...
01:06:53 <ParadoxGuitarist> let me find it.
01:07:33 <crantila> I suggest we record ourselves imitating the sounds for other OSes
01:07:42 <Lurimax> haha
01:07:50 <crantila> we can have a copyright infringement debate
01:08:09 <Lurimax> if you are very quiet, you can hear apples lawyers getting their pencils out
01:08:33 <bsjones> Lurimax: is it possible for you to upload your next compose somewhere not fedora hosted?
01:08:38 <crantila> or the black helicopters of the US federal government preparing to take down my servers
01:08:58 <Lurimax> uhmm...upload the iso?
01:09:01 <bsjones> yup
01:09:05 <Lurimax> uhmm.....
01:09:16 <Lurimax> do you have some bandwith to lend me?
01:09:21 <bsjones> ha ha
01:09:36 <bsjones> how's yr conenction? dropbox?
01:09:51 <bsjones> are we under 2 gig?
01:09:53 <Lurimax> i can upload it to my unviersity server
01:10:13 <Lurimax> if i could somehow compose on ubuntu.....
01:10:16 <bsjones> I'm just thinking of time saving measures
01:10:21 <Lurimax> we are at 1 gig
01:10:57 <bsjones> releng balked at the idea of us using the git repo
01:11:08 <Lurimax> i can just let my computer transfare over a day to my uni server, from there you get as much speed as you want for the download
01:11:09 <bsjones> security reasons etc
01:11:57 <crantila> how do the grown-ups do this?
01:12:08 <crantila> surely other spins want to host test-spins
01:12:16 <Lurimax> they don't want the kickstarts from the git either=
01:12:32 <bsjones> yeah, but if its not approved you could package non-free stuf fetc
01:13:00 <bsjones> nothing to stop you from adding any repo to the kickstart
01:13:01 <Lurimax> *they don't want the kickstarts from the git either?
01:13:09 <bsjones> the kickstarts are fine
01:13:48 <bsjones> jsut the composed images with binaries
01:13:48 <Lurimax> quick side question, anyone know about fedora on arm cpus?
01:14:21 <crantila> Lurimax: a bit
01:14:23 <bsjones> lot of chatter about this recently on devel, I belive there is an F17 secondary arch install
01:15:41 <Lurimax> if only they could get those rasberry pi computers in stock, i could just host it from that :)
01:16:02 <bsjones> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/announce/2012-June/003086.html
01:16:13 <Lurimax> anyway, i'll take care of putting the composes on a server
01:16:36 <Lurimax> worst case scenario i take a usb pen over to uni and transfare it like that
01:16:49 <crantila> SneakerNet is still a win sometimes
01:16:57 <bsjones> thanks, I can do a compose here, was just thinking of the others
01:17:44 <Lurimax> it's really no problem doing it. I might aswell use the bandwith at uni. It's not as if anyone else is uing it atm
01:18:03 <bsjones> cool
01:18:09 <bsjones> i guess that leads to the test day
01:18:22 <bsjones> did you mean pre or post approval?
01:18:27 <Lurimax> #action Lurimax will host the composes
01:18:36 <Lurimax> in the near future
01:18:49 * crantila is off to dinner... good meeting everyone, good meeting
01:18:50 <Lurimax> i was hoping to fit two into GSoC
01:19:10 <Lurimax> crantila: jupp, good meeting
01:19:15 <Lurimax> thanks for stopping by
01:19:25 <crantila> I'll try to frequent IRC
01:19:58 <bsjones> crantila: cheers!
01:20:03 <Lurimax> #topic test days
01:21:16 <Lurimax> i was thinking of having one now at the end of july, and one last week of GSoC
01:22:22 <bsjones> sounds good - you will need to familiarize yself with the QA process and try for an open slot. I will be unavailable 31 july - 9th August so end of july works for me
01:22:42 <bsjones> we probably need to try and drumm up some interest on the QA list a week or so before
01:22:55 <Lurimax> the first one will be a little more low key
01:23:04 <bsjones> sure
01:23:07 <Lurimax> need to look at logs from last week, one sec
01:24:00 <bsjones> (mind you the QA testing can only be scheduled once the spin is approved and the composes have started)
01:24:11 <Lurimax> do you know if any particular day is good/best?
01:24:35 <Lurimax> as in day of the week
01:24:46 <bsjones> well how about we do your hosted one first, cause i don't think the composes will have started by then will they?
01:25:02 <Lurimax> probably not
01:25:36 <bsjones> I'm easy, weekdays probably better for me, but I can't speak for everyonr
01:25:57 <Lurimax> they fedora 18 testday schedual doens't even exist yet
01:26:27 <Lurimax> I'm thinking the 26-27th of july
01:26:28 <bsjones> we will be looking for bugs and crashes of installed packages which we'll have to funnel up to either you as author of the kickstart or maintainer of package in error etc
01:26:37 <bsjones> i'm cool with that
01:27:18 <Lurimax> #agreed the first testday will be around the 25th of july
01:28:24 <Lurimax> the second one will probably be around 23rd of July. I go back to uni on the 24th, so it would be fun to end with a test day
01:28:46 <bsjones> august?
01:28:51 <Lurimax> jupp
01:29:03 <bsjones> also works for me
01:29:10 <Lurimax> sounds good
01:29:24 <Lurimax> sounds like things are on track then
01:29:31 <Lurimax> anything to add about test days?
01:30:09 <bsjones> getting some momentum - test days are really responsiblilty of the spin team in question, but is a great idea to go through the QA process where we can
01:30:59 <Lurimax> yeah. as soon as the calendar turen to 17th of july, that will be my main goal. The spins should only have small bits to change about it after that
01:31:48 <Lurimax> I have started spreading the word in different forums, reddits, irc channels etc.
01:32:17 <bsjones> cool
01:32:18 <Lurimax> i actually have got the most response from the fedora design team so far :)
01:32:25 <ParadoxGuitarist> I'll hit up #opensourcemusicians when we get stuff nailed down.
01:32:39 <bsjones> excellent
01:32:49 <Lurimax> sweet¨
01:33:03 <Lurimax> you sounded just like mr.burns in my head there :p
01:33:18 <Lurimax> #topic etc.
01:33:23 <ParadoxGuitarist> I may be able to get a bunch of our students here to test too.
01:33:31 <Lurimax> sweet ;)
01:33:35 <bsjones> ha ha ha. just a quick note on the config app. pulseaudio defaults to autorespawn by default, if we control it from an app we need switch that flag
01:33:49 <bsjones> .pulse/client.conf or something
01:34:02 <bsjones> everything else you can do os.exec using pacmd
01:34:08 <bsjones> pacmd help for info
01:34:08 <Lurimax> i'll make sure of it. just add it to the spesifications and i'øø fic it
01:34:22 <Lurimax> *I'll fix it
01:34:37 <bsjones> cool. everything is starting to come together
01:34:42 <Lurimax> jupp
01:34:57 <Lurimax> that's it for the meeting then?
01:35:15 <bsjones> design team is a great boon. if we can get a nice them that would be great - something which sets it apart from the start
01:35:22 <bsjones> *theme
01:36:00 <Lurimax> I'm going to go talk to them again soon. They were really nice over there :)
01:36:21 <bsjones> jsut for your info, the kxstudio guys are also working on alternate themes. good example of how to play with config, although may be a volunteer job for someone else and one of us could package it
01:36:52 <Lurimax> I'll look into it
01:37:02 <bsjones> #link http://kxstudio-team.deviantart.com/#/d49y63r
01:37:22 <bsjones> (I mean package our theme not necessarily kxstudios)
01:37:49 <bsjones> and just for the default desktop - but you got enough to do already!
01:38:06 <Lurimax> i have enough for now :)
01:38:22 <Lurimax> but i came here to work, not to sit and look at an empty screen all day
01:38:49 <bsjones> alright, Jorn! nively done - good meeting
01:38:55 <bsjones> *nicely
01:39:03 <Lurimax> #endmeeting